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Katie: Hey and welcome to the “Wellness Mama Podcast.” I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And this episode is one I’ve been enthusiastic about for a very long time. I’m right here with somebody who I’ve been ready to speak to, and I’m so excited to lastly get to talk with, which is Morley Robbins, who’s the creator of what’s known as The Root Trigger Protocol. He’s additionally identified within the on-line world because the Magnesium Man, and he is without doubt one of the foremost specialists on magnesium’s position within the physique, and the fragile dance that magnesium performs with iron, copper, and calcium. He’s most likely probably the most well-read individual that I’m conscious of presumably on the planet on this subject. And he has a mainstream medical historical past background. He’s been a hospital government and guide for 32 years. However in 2008, he developed a situation known as frozen shoulder and he’s looking for therapeutic for himself, and that led him right into a analysis pathway that now has helped hundreds and hundreds of individuals by means of his analysis into magnesium and mineral steadiness, particularly together with issues like iron and copper within the physique.
And I’ve adopted his work for some time. A number of the issues he talks about could shock you. However I actually encourage you to hear and browse extra and go deep on these matters as a result of I think about him very a lot a primary rules thinker with regards to these totally different matters, and we cowl a few of them in the present day. Although there will likely be positively extra episodes, together with he’s going to run a few of the testing on me, after which dissect the leads to real-time on the podcast. And despite the fact that I’ve been residing within the well being and wellness world for the final 15 years, I really totally count on for him to search out some stuff that I haven’t handled earlier than, and I’m actually excited to delve into that in real-time with you guys.
However we speak in regards to the significance of minerals and understanding mineral steadiness within the physique. We speak about stress, which he calls the physique’s incapacity to make power for the thoughts to answer its atmosphere. We speak about oxidative stress, and what occurs to oxygen within the physique, what ADP, not ATP, however ADP is, and why that is necessary. We speak about antioxidant enzymes, why copper is so distinctive within the capacity to control each iron and oxygen, and why that is necessary on your well being. The rationale that you simply seemingly are usually not iron poor or anemic, even when you’ve got been instructed that you’re. Why we have to produce 2.5 million new pink blood cells per second and why that is necessary. However what iron recycling is? And also you most likely haven’t even heard of this.
We speak in regards to the distinction between iron within the blood and iron within the tissue. And why the excellence is essential. How iron ages us, and primarily how we could be rusting from the within out as we age. Why most testing isn’t correct, and what to truly have a look at. He explains when and why they began including iron to our food plan supplementally, and why it’s creating a whole lot of issues. And we speak about why he firmly stands behind his assertion that there isn’t any iron deficiency anemia, and what’s really taking place as a substitute. We speak about how psychological well being and feelings have a measurable impact on bodily well being. And he explains the explanations for this. Then we speak about the very best types of magnesium, tips on how to complement with copper, and a few good guidelines of thumb for all of this stuff. Like I mentioned, there’s a lot extra to this than we may cowl in a 1-hour podcast episode. So, there’ll completely be follow-ups. However to get the dialog began, let’s be part of Morley Robbins. Morley, welcome. Thanks a lot for being right here.
Morley: Katie, I’m delighted to be right here, and searching ahead to our dialog.
Katie: Effectively, it’s such a pleasure to have you ever right here. You’ve been on my checklist…I’ve been excited to speak about with for a very long time, and I feel you have got such distinctive information in what I feel are very, essential areas, particularly for the mothers which can be listening. And we’re gonna get to go deep on a few of these areas in the present day. However, to begin broad, for individuals who could not already be conversant in you, are you able to simply give us slightly little bit of your background, and how much led you into this journey, I feel now over 10 years in the past?
Morley: Yeah. Really, it goes again to 2009, consider it or not. It’s actually, like, wow, the place does the time go? However, former hospital exec and guide, who actually was questioning the system, however I developed what’s known as a frozen shoulder. Couldn’t decide my hand up above my waist. Went to a well being meals retailer. They mentioned “Go see Dr. Liz.” I mentioned, “I don’t do witchcraft,” as a result of I knew that meant chiropractor, and purchased dietary supplements that didn’t do something. Went again months later, and the proprietor of the shop regarded me within the eye and he or she mentioned, “Morley, we love you. Go see Dr. Liz.” So, that was a transformational second. In two classes, I had full use of my shoulder, which was…it was completely a miracle. And he or she used a phrase in that dialog, that preliminary dialog, that I’d by no means heard in 32 years of working within the hospital business, which was “the innate healer.” I’d by no means heard that phrase. And I assumed to myself, I didn’t say something to her, however I assumed, “effectively, if there’s an innate healer, why do we have now tens of millions of docs world wide, if we’re ready to do that ourselves?”
And so, I set out on a quest. And for some purpose, I used to be drawn to minerals. I can’t totally clarify how or why, however it’s simply turn into this all-consuming ardour. And now, arising on 14 years of every day, seven days per week, two to a few hours every single day, studying articles from world wide, attempting to raised perceive, how can we get out of steadiness, and the way can we get again into steadiness?
As a result of my entire mannequin is predicated on one easy precept. The stress of life, and there’s a thousand totally different types of stress, as you realize. Being a mother to 6, that may be a great begin. However being within the trendy society, with the challenges of our meals system and have you ever, that stress causes mineral loss and mineral dysregulation, which then impacts our capacity to make power. And when the power goes, that’s when all of the signs begin to seem. It’s known as metabolic dysfunction. And it’s been an enchanting technique of discovery over the past 14 years to actually start to determine how all of those situations have a standard level of origin, stress, after which oxidative stress, that then impacts minerals. It’s completely superb.
Katie: Yeah. I feel that’s actually necessary to know going ahead on this dialog is, I feel, typically, once we hear the phrase “stress,” most individuals consider it simply because the psychological, like, “oh, I really feel careworn.” However actually, it’s having, to your level, bodily results on the physique, that then make it tougher to even cut back what feels just like the psychological stress. And this can be a very vicious cycle while you get in that. So possibly, are you able to clarify slightly bit extra of that relationship between stress we really feel inside the world, and oxidatively what’s taking place in our physique?
Morley: Yeah. No, that’d be nice. So, one in every of my…most likely my favourite definition of stress is by Mark Hyman, useful MD that lots of people are conversant in, up on the Cleveland Clinic. It’s an exquisite rationalization. Stress is the physique’s incapacity to make power for the thoughts to answer its atmosphere. And it’s such a stupendous and all-encompassing expression. And it actually builds on this entire notion that we do find out about psychological and emotional stress. You realize, a deadline and, “oh, I’ve gotta do that, I’ve gotta try this.” However what’s actually in play, that you simply’re actually referencing, is what’s known as oxidative stress. And the best way we make power is essential on this planet. Lots of people know that there’s oxygen within the air, 21% oxygen within the air we breathe. However oxygen will not be our buddy. It’s really a poison, consider it or not. And the best way we’re designed is that there’s essential enzymes that flip oxygen, O2, into two molecules of water, 2H2O. Effectively, these enzymes run on copper. And this goes again to the start of time, and possibly in a subsequent dialog we will speak about that.
Nevertheless it’s completely fascinating, and we’re designed to burn our gas, oxidize it, and whether or not it’s carbohydrates or proteins or fat, however it actually will depend on this capacity to show oxygen into water, after which that course of releases what are known as power precursor molecules known as ADP. Individuals could have heard of that. Most individuals have heard of ATP. And ADP is the precursor to ATP. And we manufacture about our physique weight in ATP every single day. So it’s actual necessary that we do that.
Effectively, if we will’t activate that oxygen cleanly and utterly, it’s gonna create exhaust. The phrase is “oxidative stress.” Some authors name it “reactive oxygen species.” Some simply name it “oxidants.” And an oxidant is basically an accident with oxygen. And we’ve heard of antioxidants, proper? Effectively, what most of your listeners most likely don’t know, there’s a complete huge community of what are known as antioxidant enzymes, ferroxidase, catalase, glutathione peroxidase, caroxidase, all these very fancy-sounding phrases, that each one require a copper battery to work. And if copper’s not current, then we will’t clear the oxidative stress. And as that oxidative stress builds, then it impacts the metabolism of the cells, and the tissue, and the organs. And it’s completely axiomatic. It’s simply, it’s, when you’ve tripped the wire, there’s a development of decay that follows. Does that make sense?
Katie: It does, and it positively results in the query of then, how can we cease that? As soon as that’s tipped, what can we do about it? I do know, I’ve written for years and years about magnesium, which I’ve seen again and again how necessary it’s. However you clarify so effectively that’s just one piece of this puzzle, and that there’s different actually necessary elements that I really feel like don’t get talked about sufficient. And also you converse so effectively about copper and iron. So I’d love so that you can give us possibly a broad entry into understanding the interrelationship of all of these.
Morley: Yeah. So, the fantastic thing about copper is it’s the one ingredient on planet Earth that may regulate each iron and oxygen. Iron is the grasp pro-oxidant ingredient on planet Earth. It’s the primary ingredient on planet Earth. Thirty-four p.c of the Earth’s composition has iron in it. Thirty-four p.c. That’s monumental. And oxygen, once more, you realize, we will’t reside with out it, however we will’t age with out these oxidants. And so, the flexibility to control oxygen’s very, essential. And if we don’t handle iron and oxygen, we’re gonna get oxidative stress, which is only a fancy time period for rust. We acknowledge a rusty nail and a rusty pipe and a rusty automotive. And we by no means imagined that these, that rusting course of was going down inside our physique, and that’s precisely what’s taking place. That’s what plaque is, you realize, arterial plaque or neurological plaque. That’s simply rusting, of a special nature. And once we’re lacking copper, the rusting is gonna speed up. However what’s additionally gonna occur is that oxidative stress is gonna deplete magnesium.
I name it the magnesium burn fee. In order that when your stress is rising, once more, you bought a deadline due, and also you’ve acquired some disaster that you simply’ve gotta cope with, payments to pay, no matter, otherwise you’ve acquired a awful food plan, otherwise you’re not getting sufficient sleep, otherwise you’ve acquired, you realize, one other child due… As a result of the bookends of stress on planet Earth, the bookends of stress are guys in foxholes worrying about loss of life, and mothers in birthing suites worrying about life. Nothing beats these two. And so, that mechanism of making this stress, this oxidative stress, is gonna deplete magnesium and B nutritional vitamins. And that’s the best way we’re designed, that they’re the alternate for…what’s the physique attempting to do? One, it’s, there’s essential class of enzymes known as kinase enzymes, and so they have magnesium. And as a way to launch the power that they’ve saved, they’ve gotta expend magnesium to do it. And so, underneath stress, the primary vitamins to go are magnesium and B nutritional vitamins. They go proper into our urine.
After which, if the stress continues, and it turns into persistent stress, then {the handcuffs} are placed on copper, due to the distinctive nature of cortisol. So, the important thing right here is to know that there’s a very predictable response to emphasize. And the best stress on planet Earth was articulated by a crew of Italian iron biologists. And the primary line within the article says, “The best stress on planet Earth is iron stress.” And it’s simply, like, after I learn that, and this goes again, gosh, it should be 10, 11 years in the past, however after I learn that, it hit me like a ton of bricks, as a result of I used to be actually specializing in magnesium, that was my unique stage identify, “Magnesium Man,” coping with stress. However after I realized that it was the iron stress that was inflicting the magnesium loss, then I needed to search out out what’s inflicting this iron to behave out? And that’s what acquired me into the entire work round copper and oxygen. And it’s been completely fascinating ever since.
Katie: And I like your strategy to this, since you appear to me to be a really first-principles thinker, and never counting on the assumptions that exist at the moment inside drugs, however really going again to the basis trigger, which I feel we will all profit from shifting our pondering in that method. However particularly for girls, this appears very, very related, as a result of I do know, typically, girls who menstruate, are in that age, or who’re particularly pregnant, are sometimes instructed that they’ve low iron, or they’re anemic, and that they should complement with it. I had a emergency C-section with my third, and misplaced a whole lot of blood, and so they saved telling me, “Oh, you might want to preserve supplementing with iron for a very long time, since you misplaced a lot blood.” And also you have been one of many ones that launched me to actually questioning this concept, or no less than the mainstream presentation of this concept. So, possibly let’s tiptoe into the world of what about girls who’re instructed that they’re iron poor at these varied phases?
Morley: How a lot time do we have now? A pair days, proper? Yeah. It’s a really…it’s an enchanting space of exploration. An necessary statistic for people to know is that each second of every single day, we have to produce 2.5 million new pink blood cells. Each second. And that’s a giant quantity, proper? That’s like, wow, you realize, we’ve been speaking now for nearly quarter-hour, instances 60, instances 2.5 million. However what’s much more superb is that inside that 2.5 million are 2 trillion proteins that have to be made too, as a result of you possibly can’t make…you possibly can’t make a pink blood cell should you can’t make hemoglobin, however you possibly can’t make hemoglobin should you can’t make heme. And the heme is being made in mitochondria. And everybody is aware of, oh, these are the power furnaces. Effectively, that’s like saying that each one your kitchen does is, you realize, defrost meals. No. It’s much more happening within the kitchen than simply defrosting meals. However the level is, there’s an infinite metabolic exercise going down in our physique, 24/7, each second. And there’s an infinite motion, as you possibly can think about, of metals to help that.
And so, what’s completely fascinating is when you concentrate on changing…it’s really 200 billion pink blood cells in 24 hours. It’s so much. That’s so much. Okay? Huge quantity. However what is completely mind-numbing is it solely takes 25 milligrams of iron to help changing 200 billion pink blood cells. Twenty-five milligrams of iron. It’s like, it’s so small. And once more, the typical particular person most likely has about 4,000 milligrams of iron, or so we’re instructed. I feel it’s a lot larger, however we’ll cope with that later. However the factor is, 25 milligrams are wanted.
However right here’s the catch. That is crucial factor for people to take heed to and perceive. Twenty-four of these 25 milligrams, 95% of the iron that we’d like every single day, each 24 hours, comes from a recycling system that’s run by copper. And there’s a…and for individuals who can return to their days of classroom math, you realize there’s a distinction between algebra and calculus. And calculus is like, oh my gosh, I don’t even wanna give it some thought. It’s difficult, proper? Effectively, the method of supporting the alternative of, you realize, 200 billion pink blood cells each 24 hours, that’s calculus. And it’s run by copper. And what are docs taught to make use of? Rulers. They use an iron ruler to say, “Effectively, your iron’s too low,” or, “your iron’s too excessive.” You’re severe? You’re utilizing a ruler to attempt to resolve calculus?
And that’s the place the breakdown is, is that the deception, and I don’t know that it’s on objective, however it’s been evolving for the higher a part of the century, however the deception is that iron within the blood, exhibits up in a blood check, is completely consultant of iron within the tissue. And it’s not. And there’s a well-known scientist named Bruce Ames. He was at Berkeley for many of his profession. Very good man. And his colleague, Dr. Kamilia. Again in 2004, they did a research the place they have been taking a look at dying cells to see what the distinction in iron content material was of these dying cells versus youthful cells. And what they found is that the older cells had 10 instances extra iron than the iron displaying up within the blood, which is completely superb. Ten instances extra iron, however it doesn’t present up on the blood check. So what occurs is, the physician does a blood check, or the practitioner or some nutritionist or no matter, somebody does the blood check, and so they see that one of many markers for iron is low, and so they get out their ruler, not their calculus pc, and so they’re not fascinated about the recycling program. They’re pondering that the…it’s like a dipstick. Oh, effectively, your iron is low. It’s like, wait a minute, if 95% of the iron that I want every day helps this recycling program, may the iron in reality be tied up in these recycling, what are known as macrophages? And people are the PACMAN that gobble up dying cells, and so they’ve gotta get the iron out and get it again to the bone marrow, the place it’s really made into new pink blood cells. Actually essential operate.
And so, there’s this perception on the market that the iron within the blood is completely consultant of the iron all through the tissue. And what’s very well-chronicled within the analysis is, no, they’re under no circumstances alike. And so they’re under no circumstances consultant. And there’s all types of confusion between iron and hemoglobin, iron and ferritin, and iron that’s present in what’s known as the serum. And so, what serum actually is, it’s very, quite simple. For those who take a tube of blood, it’s pink, proper? However while you spin it down right into a centrifuge, you get two fluids. You get the underside half is pink, and people are known as packed pink blood cells, after which the highest half is this type of milky, white searum. And I spell it in a different way. I spell it S-E-A-R-U-M. So that you assume seawater, as a result of that’s what it’s purported to be. And the pink blood cells are swimming within the seawater, and it’s purported to have the mineral composition of seawater. A minimum of it has traditionally. I’m undecided it does in the present day. However the factor is, there’s some iron in there, simply as there’s copper, and zinc, and magnesium, and different metals and minerals. However the necessary factor is, the practitioners don’t default to the copper calculus. They all the time default to the iron ruler. And there are conditions the place the iron will look low within the blood, when in reality, it’s a fully overwhelming state of storage within the tissue. And that is, I feel, one of many nice errors that’s made in drugs in the present day, will not be understanding totally the recycling program that’s so important for correct iron metabolism.
Katie: And I feel that is critically necessary, questioning these assumptions of the standard testing that’s most frequently used, after which the assumptions which can be made due to that, particularly once we’re speaking about issues like magnesium, which, to my information, is definitely fairly tough to check in an correct method within the physique. I really feel like copper doesn’t even enter this dialog, a lot much less the testing, most frequently. So, it makes me actually curious, how can we really know what we’d like if even the testing that we’re usually given is flawed?
Morley: No, it’s an awesome query, and I encounter it on a regular basis. The testing is imperfect. The factor is, there are assessments on the market that we will do. I imply, should you actually need to get it on the granular degree of copper, what we have to be doing is measuring what’s the exercise of what’s known as the ferroxidase enzyme. Ferroxidase is the enzyme that’s regulating iron standing. For those who return to your chemistry, oh no, don’t do that. However there’s plus two iron and plus three iron, ferrous and ferric iron. Effectively, ferroxidase is managing that course of. Actually, actually necessary. And it’s important for the recycling program to have the ability to try this. Effectively, we’ve acquired…there’s an enzyme that I used to be describing earlier contained in the mitochondria that really turns O2 into 2H2O, and it’s known as cytochrome c oxidase. Actually necessary enzyme. I feel it’s most likely crucial enzyme on the planet. We will measure that. Then we’ve acquired an enzyme known as superoxide dismutase. So, while you take an oxygen molecule, O2, and also you add an electron to it, they name it superoxide. No, it’s hyperoxide. It’s actually, like, it’s very reactive. And these enzymes are measured in analysis research. However right here’s the catch. The FDA doesn’t enable them to be finished by clinicians. Expressly barred. You may ask why. I’ve by no means had the gall or the curiosity to name up the FDA to say “why?” I feel I’ve some concepts. However practitioners don’t know that these can be found.
So, right here’s an instance of what I’m speaking about. Katie, how tall are you?
Katie: 5’7”.
Morley: 5’7”. Okay. Does that in any method give us an concept of how clever you might be?
Katie: Not usually, no.
Morley: No, under no circumstances. So, I’m six foot, proper? However we nonetheless don’t know the way good we’re, proper? And so, within the research, once we’re doing blood work, particularly once we’re doing blood work of copper, what we’re measuring is the peak of copper, and the peak of its protein, known as ceruloplasmin. That’s, like, a phrase that almost all docs have by no means heard. However what it stands for is blue blood, cerulo, sky blue, plasma. It’s lovely. Nevertheless it tells us nothing about its intelligence. We want to have the ability to get entry to the ferroxidase assay, which isn’t allowed. So, that’s the catch. And what we’re left with is, and also you’re asking the suitable query, about effectively, if we’ve acquired these faulty assessments, what are we purported to do? Effectively, we do the testing as a result of there’s nonetheless data that’s revealed in that testing, however there actually are 5 habits of every day residing that we will additionally do. And that is, any mother or father would know these habits of every day residing, as a result of they’ve monitored it with their youngsters. Did they get a great night time’s sleep? Or did I get a great night time’s sleep? You realize, am I hungry? Do I’ve an urge for food? Am I in a position to remove my waste? Do I’ve power to get by means of the day? To get all of the duties finished that I wanna get finished by means of the day? After which the ultimate measure is, is my temper applicable to my state of affairs?
If I’ve simply gained the lottery, I ought to be excited. And so, we do delve into the blood testing and the hair testing, as a result of it’s very consultant. However what it actually tells us…as a result of we don’t diagnose something, we don’t deal with something, inside the RCP. However the level is, we use these assessments to be taught the person’s story of stress. What’s been happening in your world? What modifications have made? What was the stress that you simply have been underneath simply earlier than the signs appeared? And it’s superb how persons are out of the blue in a position to join the dots, say, “Effectively, wait a minute. All of them began proper after the guts assault,” or “proper after my relative acquired outta jail,” or, and I really had that occur with a shopper, “proper after I modified my food plan.” And so they can…they went, “You imply there’s no illness?” No. There’s stress-induced mineral dysregulation, that modifications power manufacturing, which creates the signs. And since we’re human, we’re very gullible, and we consider the label that the practitioner offers us. That’s what we have now to query, is, is there extra to the story? And to me, crucial factor in regards to the final two and a half years that we’ve all endured, the stress that’s been endured, globally, is, there’s extra to the story.
And we do have to ask higher questions, and we do have to demand higher solutions, as a result of the wrote responses that we’ve been given all through our lives are usually not full. They’re not sufficient. And that’s actually the idea of my work is to actually pull the curtain again. And I spell Cu-rtain, C-U, hyphen, R-T-A-I-N, so that you see the image for copper. And copper is simply this hidden pressure, that basically, for my part, that runs the physique. It regulates the physique. And there’s solely 4 issues that copper does in our physique. Solely 4 issues. It creates power, it clears exhaust, it catalyzes enzymes, and it combats enemies. All of them. Micro organism, fungus, virus, and parasites. And what blew me away in 2020 was the article I discovered from 2008, that clearly confirmed that copper stops SARS-CoV-2 in its tracks. And that’s after I knew to query extra of the narrative.
Katie: That’s fascinating. And I’ve so many follow-up questions and so many instructions we will go. I’ve a sense that alone could also be main folks to need to go simply load up on copper dietary supplements. And I do know there’s rather more nuance to it for that. And I wanna speak extra in depth about copper and magnesium particularly. However earlier than we do, is there another nuance associated to iron consumption? As a result of based mostly on our dialog to this point, I may see folks desirous to be cautious of consuming iron. And so I’d love to speak slightly bit in regards to the nuance of forms of iron, and if there’s good iron versus dangerous iron, and sources to pay attention to.
Morley: Proper. Oh, boy. Simply, nice follow-up query. Nevertheless it’s, like, bing, bing, bing. What’s necessary for folks to know, once more, iron’s primary ingredient on the planet. It’s a giant, dominant pressure on the planet. In 1941, they began including iron filings, let it sink in, not natural iron, iron filings, to the wheat flour within the UK, in Canada, and the U.S. In 1969, the FDA needed to extend it 300%. And scientists from world wide, 26, 28, I can’t bear in mind the precise quantity, got here to Washington, D.C. and testified and mentioned, “What are you attempting to do? Kill folks?” Which might be what they have been attempting to do. However what folks additionally want to know is there’s 9 totally different types of iron now being added to our meals system. 9. And all of them are carcinogenic. And all these details are specified by a e book known as “Iron: The Most Poisonous Steel” by Jym Moon, J-Y-M, Moon, just like the planet. He’s a Ph.D., iron toxicologist. So, folks have to know that there’s a whole lot of iron being added to the meals system. After which while you decide up your dietary supplements, and there’s much more iron in your dietary supplements, whether or not it’s One A Days, or prenatals or what, you realize, senior tabs, or no matter you is likely to be taking. And we acquired an excessive amount of iron coming in, of us. I imply, it’s uncontrolled. And but, it exhibits up low on the blood check, proper? As a result of nobody’s speaking about copper. That’s why.
Once more, the calculus of iron metabolism and iron recycling requires copper, and so they’ve identified this since 1928. Crucial research was finished at College of Wisconsin, in Madison. And in 2021, a crew of scientists have been learning 13 genes that cope with metals within the liver. And underneath copper deficiency, there was just one gene that fired off, and it’s the gene that produces a protein that enables iron accumulation within the liver. It’s a really severe occasion that they have been in a position to confirm, genetically, what Dr. Hart and his crew had developed, or recognized, again in 1928. So, the query is, ought to we be including iron? Effectively, to start with, we have to perceive the context of iron on the planet, the context of iron in our meals system, the context of iron in our dietary supplements. However most significantly, we have to get the right blood check. We name it the Full Monty Iron Panel. And there’s 13 markers there. And also you want to have the ability to put iron within the context of copper, and zinc, and magnesium within the pink blood cell, and vitamin A and vitamin D and a lot of different elements. And also you don’t simply have a look at iron. You’ll want to have a look at iron within the context of its companions contained in the physique.
And so, I feel it’s necessary that folks have a extra correct understanding of their true iron standing, not the manipulated, “Oh, it’s a blood check, it says it’s low, and I gotta take extra.” And one in every of my college students, probably the most superb folks I’ve ever met, spent her complete life being instructed she was anemic. Katie, she had 80 iron infusions. Eighty. And he or she saved displaying low. And we’re speaking about a whole lot of iron going into her physique. And when she and I had our first dialog, about eight years in the past, it was fairly tense. As a result of she’s like, “So, you’re telling me that I’m poisoning myself?” I mentioned, “Effectively, I’m not saying that,” however, you realize, however that’s what I used to be pondering. However the level is, to her credit score, she determined to begin this system, after which she took the coaching that I train.
And I feel it was earlier within the spring this yr, there’s an image of her arm at a blood middle. I feel she was arising on, like, her fiftieth birthday or one thing. And he or she, too, has six children, by the best way. And it was the primary blood donation she had ever finished in her complete life. And what’s superb about that’s that she simply was this, simply crammed with iron, however her physique was in a position to heal itself by following the rules of the Root Trigger Protocol. And it’s a extremely, it’s a shocking instance. Now, it’s an N of 1. I do know, it’s anecdotal, it’s only one case research. However there are many of us on the market which have skilled this. And I feel that what folks have to do is be slightly bit extra cautious about including iron. They’ve gotta be studying labels. And if the label says “enriched flour,” or “fortified flour,” you don’t need that iron. You wanna avoid that iron.
Lots of people assume that they’re gluten delicate. It’s not the gluten. They’re spraying wheat with glyphosate, which is a desiccant, which suggests it’s a drying agent. They spraying it 4 instances with glyphosate. Individuals don’t assume something of it. Effectively, glyphosate chelates copper from the physique. That’s not good. After which they’re including…they’re sprinkling the iron filings into the wheat. You’re reacting to the iron and the glyphosate, not the gluten. As a result of I’ve acquired full-blown celiac purchasers that may go to Europe and so they can eat the bread over there, whether or not it’s in Italy or Germany or France, as a result of they don’t enable that in Europe. So, the thought of including iron since you assume you’re anemic, I feel it’s a must to be actually cautious. I’ve acquired a collection of YouTube movies the place I’m speaking about you’re not anemic. I’ve acquired no less than 5 or 6 what are known as iron toxicity posts, “You’re Not Anemic,” the place I’m going into element, and have the literature there.
After which, there are two principal types of what are known as anemia. There’s about 12 totally different types of anemia. However the two that stand out are what are known as iron deficiency anemia, which most individuals assume they’ve. And the opposite is anemia of persistent irritation. I might go on file, and I’ve on quite a few events…there isn’t any iron deficiency anemia. It’s unimaginable on the planet that has the primary ingredient is iron. And I feel what most individuals are coping with is anemia of persistent irritation, as a result of it’s indicating that the iron recycling system isn’t working proper.
However let me return to the iron deficiency anemia. With a view to consider in that, once more, we return to iron is primary ingredient, 34%. And previous to COVID, I might’ve argued that people have been probably the most advanced species on the planet. Now I’m not so certain. However the necessary factor is, as a way to consider in iron deficiency anemia, what it means is that probably the most advanced species on the planet has misplaced the flexibility to metabolize the primary ingredient on the planet, and it doesn’t make sense. And what’s lacking is copper. And what anemia of persistent illness, the initials are ACD, effectively, what I’ve modified it to is anemia of copper deficiency. And there’s increasingly more authors which can be coming to comprehend that that is in reality the most important contributing issue to this notion that we have now that we’re anemic. And I might actually encourage your listeners and your followers to dig slightly deeper, and be taught that there’s greater than what they assume is happening, and that there are assessments accessible. And that there are practitioners on the market, you realize, Root Trigger Protocol consultants, who’re actually good at serving to to separate wheat from chaff, and get folks to know what’s actually happening with their mineral standing.
Katie: And to me, that is simply one other of many, many causes to keep away from enriched and course of wheat for certain, particularly within the U.S. So I positively echo that suggestion and have for a very long time.
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I’m curious, although, that that may lead lots of people to be afraid of even consuming, like, grass-fed beef, for example, or organ meats, as a result of they usually are thought to have extra iron. I’m curious if there’s any nuance there for folks to pay attention to with regards to dietary sources.
Morley: Yeah. No, it’s a vital subject, is that the grass that the animals are consuming must be grown in soil that has mineral steadiness. Like, actually necessary. And so, you realize, wherever doable, we attempt to eat grass-fed beef merchandise, or regardless of the animal is likely to be, particularly for the organ meats. However the catch is, is the farmer conscious that there must be copper in that soil? As a result of if the copper will not be within the soil, you then’re not gonna get vitamin C within the grass. You’re not gonna get the beta-carotene within the grass that’s wanted. And beta-carotene turns into retinol within the animal’s physique. And so, we simply should be actually discerning. And don’t be paranoid or shut down. Simply know that it’s an iterative technique of studying in regards to the farmers in your space, asking the actually necessary questions, and having the endurance to actually dangle with them, and get them to elucidate what are they doing to feed their soil and their microbes, in order that the grass has the fullest expression? If anybody’s ever seen the movies with Joel Salatin at Polyface Farms, and he holds up the bouquet of grass, he says, “I’m only a humble grass farmer.” Effectively, that grass that he’s working with is simply teeming with the important, nutritional vitamins and minerals that it wants. And so, we simply want to hunt out farmers who’ve ardour round that. That’s actually, actually necessary.
Katie: And, totally conscious that every of those following questions might be a complete podcast or a number of in and of themselves, I wanna make certain we will contact on a couple of key factors right here. And we’ve talked so much about magnesium, and I might like to go slightly deeper on that, in understanding, possibly for folks, what are a few of the preliminary methods we will start optimizing our magnesium ranges? Since you talked about it being essential in that stress response, and that depletion of magnesium then intensifies it, and I feel you known as it stress-induced mineral dysregulation, which makes me assume then, can we have now a mineral-induced stress resilience? And in that case, like, how can we optimize these magnesium ranges within the physique?
Morley: Yeah. Completely. And that’s actually what the bottom of the RCP is, mineral-induced stress resilience. That’s an awesome phrase, Katie. The very first thing we’ve gotta is we’ve gotta cope with our stress. And we put a whole lot of emphasis on that within the work that we do. And we get folks to…what’s necessary to know is that when we have now emotional stress, or what we would even name emotional trauma, it’s gonna instill concern in our being. We will’t resolve an emotional subject at a deeper degree, it’s gonna trigger concern. And we spell “Fe-ar” in a different way, F-E, hyphen, A-R. So that you see the image for iron. And we’ve additionally known as it, “FeAR stands for ‘Iron Attracts Rust,’” which it does. And so, this idea of once we’re in a state of concern, it modifications our pH, which makes us extra engaging to iron. And any farmer will inform you that acidic soil attracts iron. That’s a reality. Effectively, there’s a bottom to the dynamic, and there’s one thing known as a hazard sensor, or a concern sensor, within the cell, and it’s a protein known as NLRP3. And it’s the nuclear origin of irritation. It’s additionally known as the inflammasome. And what prompts it? Iron.
So, concern attracts iron, iron prompts concern, and there’s this vicious circle that takes place in our metabolism. And what is going to slice proper by means of it’s emotional launch methods, like EFT, EMDR, Bowen remedy, issues of that nature, which can be very efficient, however you might want to do it with a practitioner, as a result of the people who find themselves drawn to these kinds of discussions are high-IQ. And other people with excessive IQ have two genetic defects. We’re management freaks, and we love complexity.
Effectively, doing the emotional launch work with a practitioner is extra difficult, in order that they’re gonna love that, however they’ll train you tips on how to let go. As a result of we’re not superb at that. And anybody who has problems with management, that’s actually the place it begins. And when does stress actually start for folks with excessive IQ? After we really feel uncontrolled. And that’s actually, actually necessary. And so, coping with the stresses, when it comes to what Katie’s asking about, how can we defend our magnesium? We’ve gotta cope with that. We’ve gotta cope with the stressors in our life. The large stressor, iron, we’ve gotta cope with this iron, and get it into correct recycling and correct regulation in our physique, and cease pondering that we measure iron standing with a ruler, when in reality it’s a really subtle recycling system, that has calculus driving it. And copper’s operating the present. It’s so necessary to know that.
Then we’ve gotta cope with the truth that our food plan is usually a issue, as a supply of stress. There’s magnesium loss related to that. And so, what we actually encourage folks to do is simply take magnesium dietary supplements. I imply, there’s 4 alternative ways to get magnesium. We will get magnesium in our water, magnesium bicarbonate. It’s instantly accessible. Lots of mineral waters from Europe are gonna have magnesium bicarbonate in them. So that may be your first cease. One other can be magnesium-rich meals, particularly leafy greens, are gonna have a whole lot of magnesium in them. It’s nice, however you gotta cook dinner ’em proper, you realize. Then we’ve acquired transdermal. We’ve acquired magnesium foot baths, or full baths. They’re very restorative. The physique loves to soak up magnesium. You realize, once more, they are saying we advanced from the ocean, the place there’s a whole lot of magnesium within the seawater. After which the fourth can be magnesium dietary supplements. And the 2 kinds that we’ve discovered the very best outcomes with are magnesium malate and magnesium glycinate. And it’s, you realize, based mostly upon the pioneering analysis of Mildred Seelig, who’s a mother, and a really gifted doctor, and he or she found out that what we wanted was 5 milligrams of magnesium per pound physique weight. However when you realize you’re in a worrying state of affairs, you want extra.
Once more, again to our bookends of stress, to me, one of many biggest blind spots in drugs will not be measuring magnesium standing of the pregnant girl, not measuring her copper standing, and never measuring her retinol standing. And possibly that’s a subject for a subsequent dialog, Katie, however probably the most necessary phrases I ever heard was, once more, from Mildred Seelig, and he or she mentioned “being pregnant is a magnesium-deficient state from stem to stern.” And the truth that obstetricians and midwives don’t even measure magnesium standing is slightly unsettling, particularly when you concentrate on how necessary it’s. What folks like to speak about is, “Effectively, I used to be, like, I developed preeclampsia, and so they gave me an infusion of magnesium and I used to be advantageous.” And my response is, why wasn’t the practitioner measuring your magnesium within the pink blood cell from the complete starting of your being pregnant, to remain on high of it? As a result of it might’ve proven up there, and they’d’ve identified that there was rising oxidative stress, burning by means of the magnesium, that was going to then change the metabolic dynamics of the uterus, that led to hypertension, and edema and issues like that.
And so, once more, the standard drugs is predicated on the white knight. “Oh, I’m gonna prevent on the final second.” No, we don’t want saving on the final second. Let’s cope with the issue all through the complete being pregnant. And so, I feel we will restore our magnesium by means of our food plan, and thru supplementation. However crucial factor to do is to stop its loss, its perpetual loss, as a result of our stress is uncontrolled. Whether or not it’s mental-emotional, dietary, iron that we’re simply not clear on, and it’s, you realize, there’s methods to get clear on it, this dialog being a chief begin for that. However the factor is, we will get on high of our stress, and that can then decrease our magnesium burn fee, which is basically, actually necessary for our total well being.
Katie: I feel that’s maybe among the best explanations I’ve ever heard on how our psychological state, particularly concern, pertains to bodily well being. And I noticed this play out in my very own life, after I had unresolved trauma that I assumed I had simply handled, and it seems I had ignored it. And dealing by means of that with practitioners really was the factor that shifted my well being, with out extra dietary modifications or altering anything. And so, now I’m a giant advocate of that is without doubt one of the most necessary items that usually will get ignored within the bodily well being equation.
Morley: Completely. It’s probably the most necessary. Completely.
Katie: And similar with magnesium. So, I’m a doula, and that’s one thing I observed anecdotally, and have written so much about is, after I began actually optimizing my magnesium, my pregnancies acquired drastically simpler, my labors acquired shorter. And I’ve seen this play out time and again in doula purchasers as effectively. And so, particularly, I all the time encourage folks, you realize, simply, that is what labored for me. A minimum of analysis it, as a result of it appears to make an incredible distinction. And to your level, possibly it might be finest to not wait until it’s in an emergent state, and we have now to do IV infusions of magnesium to maintain somebody from having, you realize, a stroke. Perhaps what if we deal with this from the start, and even pre-conception? What would that seem like? And likewise, we’ve talked so much about copper being a extremely necessary a part of this equation, however I additionally wanna remember of people that may simply wanna go begin taking supplemental copper, and the caveats that they should perceive there. So, possibly give us an summary of what are the very best methods to get copper, and do we’d like to pay attention to not overdoing it, or any caveats associated to copper consumption?
Morley: Yeah. Completely. Once more, I come again to the framework that I actually encourage folks to get a working information of what’s happening with their minerals, by means of the hair check and the blood check. You realize, it’s so necessary that we have now this reference level of information. However copper is probably the most missed mineral, no query. Nevertheless it isn’t simply copper. It must be what’s known as bioavailable copper. Copper works in our physique by means of a community, an intensive community, of enzymes. The grasp antioxidant enzyme is named ceruloplasmin, and it may specific as much as 20 totally different antioxidant enzyme capabilities, which is, it’s mind-boggling to consider. And the one which they all the time speak about is named ferroxidase, however there’s others which can be simply as necessary, critically necessary. And so, practitioners don’t know that. They should know that, however they don’t know that. However the factor is, there’s many, many, many different enzymes that require copper.
And the catch is, there are two essential enzymes known as copper pumps. One is named ATP7A, and one other is named ATP7B. Some folks wish to name them the Menkes’ protein and the Wilson’s protein. However, on the finish of the day, what they’re is copper pumps, operating on the power of retinol, that you simply get from, like, cod liver oil, or, you realize, grass-fed beef liver, issues of that nature. However the retinol is critically necessary to activate the mechanism to actually load the copper into these totally different enzymes. And should you don’t have these ATP7A/B enzymes pumping copper, effectively you then’re not gonna load them proper, after which they’re not gonna work proper. So, while you start to step again and have a look at the main target of the Root Trigger Protocol, we have now about 12 to fifteen totally different vitamins, however there’s methodology in our insanity, as a result of what we’re actually searching for to do is optimize the manufacturing of bioavailable copper that we’d be measured, by means of a blood check, with what’s known as copper and ceruloplasmin.
And so, what we usually speak about are the significance of bee pollen as a supply of copper. You possibly can’t pollinate a flower, and you may’t pollinate an animal except you have got copper. And for these of you within the listening viewers who’re having bother getting pregnant, should you have been a sheep on a farm, there’s just one nutrient that farmer would add to your feed, and that may be copper. Copper deficiency is what’s contributing to the lack to conceive, for all kinds of causes. However simply, the massive level is we’d like extra copper. However bee pollen, very, essential. Once more, natural, wherever yow will discover it.
Then we’ve acquired entire meals vitamin C, and it’s necessary for the listeners to know there’s a distinction between ascorbic acid, which is an artificial chemical, and entire meals vitamin C, that has a number of transferring components. And on the middle of it’s an enzyme known as tyrosinase, which only a few folks have ever heard of. However tyrosinase is what makes the protein melanin work, which is what offers us our pores and skin colour, eye colour, hair colour, and does a thousand different issues past that. And so, tyrosinase could be very, essential. It’s not insignificant that the meals business depends on what are known as tyrosinase inhibitors, as a result of they’re attempting to stop the browning of the meals. Do you assume it’d have an effect on the browning of the human? In fact it does. And so, tyrosinase is a vital supply of copper. There’s two atoms of copper within the tyrosinase enzyme. After which the third supply that we usually go to is grass-fed beef liver. And in superb conditions, the place the grass is being mineralized correctly, you’re gonna get twice as a lot copper within the beef liver as you’re gonna get iron.
The liver was by no means supposed to be an iron storage depot. It’s been become one within the final century. And so, the liver is extremely depending on copper to do its tons of and tons of of various capabilities. And storing iron is one in every of them, however it’s not the dominant objective of the organ. And all of our organs are extremely depending on making power, however you possibly can’t make power with out mitochondria. And mitochondria don’t work with out copper. So the organs are a really wealthy supply of copper, traditionally. After which, there’s clear proof that not all soil has copper. And so, I made a decision to do one thing daring, and I labored with a producer, and I developed one thing known as Recuperate. And it’s a type of…it’s a complement that has grass-fed beef liver, spirulina, slightly little bit of turmeric, and copper bisglycinate in it, to ensure that copper’s gonna get into your every day routine. And the influence it’s having, it’s refined, however very vital. Individuals are simply amazed at how their signs are progressively disappearing as they get increasingly more copper into their physique. And I don’t need the listeners to assume, “Oh, gosh. He’s only a complement pimp,” as a result of I’m not. What I actually encourage folks to do is, if somebody put a gun to my head proper now, and mentioned, “Morley, boil down 14 years of analysis into one sentence,” right here it’s, of us. Please get extra copper in your every day food plan. It’s completely important for our total wellbeing.
And I feel we have now to watch out what the sourcing is. Don’t run out and simply purchase any supply of copper. Be discerning. Meals-based is finest. And simply know that there are different kinds on the market. There’s an exquisite kind known as copper hydrosol, that’s made by the parents that make Sovereign Silver. An exquisite type of copper. And one other one which’s transdermal, that I completely love, is named… It’s made by Reverse Pores and skin Growing older. They’re out of Seattle, Washington. And it’s a 3% VIP luxurious cream, and a 3% VIP luxurious serum, and it’s superb. Once more, girls appear to choose the cream. Guys appear to choose the serum. However they’re each blue, and that’s vital as a result of copper loves to precise by means of blue proteins. And there are a selection of ways in which we will get the copper again, however the secret’s getting on high of the buildup of iron. And once we cope with the buildup of iron, it’s gonna assist us protect the magnesium, and protect the copper that we’d like so desperately in our day-to-day metabolism.
Katie: And as I anticipated, this, our time has already flown by, and there’s so, so many extra questions I wanna ask you, and matters we haven’t even start to the touch on. So I feel we’ll should do follow-up interviews, completely for certain. And I may also make certain to hyperlink to a whole lot of the totally different matters that you simply’ve written about and that you simply speak about, so folks can watch your YouTube movies and proceed studying out of your writing within the interim. However I’m curious if, clearly, with the understanding that that is very nuanced, and each physique is slightly bit totally different, I do know you have got practitioners who do your Root Trigger Protocol, and that you’ve got rather more specifics about this on-line, however I’m additionally a giant fan of Richard Feynman, the physicist, and the way he had what he known as “The Feynman Approach,” the place he would summarize a whole lot of data, whether or not it was a e book he learn or no matter, on the finish, and his concept that you simply don’t actually perceive one thing until you possibly can sort of clarify it to somebody, and also you’ve finished such an awesome job explaining it to me in the present day.
However I’m curious if there’s any sort of Feynman abstract of the place to get began, for individuals who that is a wholly new idea to, who possibly we’ve challenged some preconceived notions that that they had associated to iron, or no matter it might be. Is there a great beginning place for them? I might guess issues like possibly cut back or keep away from any of these enriched meals that you simply talked about can be an instance, or think about a magnesium complement. However another beginning factors that you’d give for folks for continued analysis?
Morley: Yeah. I feel for individuals who are readers or listeners, I’ve acquired a e book that I printed a yr in the past, known as “Cu-RE Your Fatigue.” Once more, the “Cu” is highlighted on the title. However once more, our options are round getting extra copper into our physique. However the entrance half of that e book explains what the issue is. The again half of the e book explains tips on how to resolve the issue. So that may be an awesome reference level. A lot of scientific articles referenced in that e book, for these gearheads who actually wanna get into it. Then, one other supply can be, there’s, on therootcauseprotocol.com, or you can too discover it, rcp123.org. However on that web site are 81 posts on iron toxicity. And every of these articles that I wrote has wherever from 4 to seven scientific articles referenced within the article.
And that’ll take you right into a deeper degree of understanding. I’ve acquired…my goodness, I’ve acquired a pair hundred podcast interviews on the market. Those that folks usually inform me about that they actually, I say, “Effectively, how did you hear in regards to the RCP?” It appears nearly with out exception, it’s coming by means of “The Sturdy Sistas.” There are two sisters over in Michigan. They’ve acquired a farm, “Angel Acres.” And simply…we spent, I assume, three or 4, possibly 5 conversations speaking about these elements. And so, I feel your viewers would most likely discover them to be very entertaining, very instructional, and get ’em pointed in the suitable path. After which, for individuals who are concerned with social media, we have now each what’s known as the Magnesium Advocacy Group, the place we speak about these points, after which there’s the RCP Protocol web page. And so, lot of sources. After which, for individuals who is likely to be concerned with a deeper dive, or within the…if they’re a practitioner as effectively, we do a 16-week institute coaching for folks. Twice a yr, we have now courses that basically take it to a a lot deeper degree, so folks have a working information of what you and I’ve been skimming over in the middle of our time collectively.
Katie: Superior. I’ll embody all of these hyperlinks as effectively. And that is maybe probably the most notes I’ve ever taken for present notes in a podcast. I’ve acquired a complete lot of notes for you guys at wellnessmama.fm, and I’ll hyperlink to extra studying from you, Morley, as effectively. I hope that we will do some follow-up episodes, and actually go deep on the being pregnant implications, and in addition speak about issues we didn’t even contact on, like artificial vitamin D versus daylight, and calcium supplementation, and so many extra issues. However for in the present day, I’m so grateful on your time. It’s been an absolute honor to get to speak to you. I’ve revered your work for a very long time, and I’m very grateful you took the time to be right here.
Morley: Effectively, I’m completely thrilled to have this chance to talk with you. You’re a residing legend as effectively, and was very, very honored that we had an opportunity to have this preliminary dialog, and I’ll sit up for our follow-up conversations going ahead.
Katie: Fantastic. I sit up for it as effectively. And thanks as all the time to all of you for listening, and for sharing your most beneficial assets, your time, your power, and your consideration with us in the present day. We’re each so grateful that you simply did, and I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of “The Wellness Mama Podcast.”
For those who’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to go away a ranking or evaluate on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to search out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the data. I actually admire your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.
