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Howdy and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m so grateful you’re right here. I’m actually excited for this episode. I’m right here with Veronica Rottman, and we speak all about somatic and nervous system therapeutic and why that is so essential. And I’ve gotten loads of questions on this matter since sharing my very own therapeutic journey and trauma restoration and with the ability to launch Hashimoto’s for my physique. And I’m not certified to clearly give any clarification or teaching on somatic therapeutic, however it was one thing that was very useful for me, which is why I’m so excited to be right here with Veronica, who’s a somatic practitioner and educator, and he or she’s the founding father of Waking Womb, which is a somatic observe that facilities therapeutic trauma via the nervous system and particularly for ladies and regarding relational and emotional trauma, boundary ruptures, motherhood, and a lot extra. And she or he has loads of assets for this on-line that I’ll hyperlink to within the present notes for you guys listening on the go. That at all times is at wellnessmama.com, however we go into this matter at this time and particularly the best way to start the somatic therapeutic course of. So let’s soar in. Veronica, welcome. Thanks a lot for being right here.
Veronica: Thanks a lot, Katie. It’s a pleasure to be right here with you. Thanks.
Katie: I’m actually excited for our dialog at this time as a result of longtime listeners have in all probability heard me speak, no less than in passing, about my very own therapeutic and restoration from trauma and the way the somatic facet of that ended up being essential to me and really even addressing nervous system well being normally. It was one thing that was type of off my radar and I used to be doing all of the dietary supplements and all of the issues and dealing with all of the docs. And it wasn’t till I addressed these issues that every one that stuff really labored. And so now I’m a agency believer. This piece is actually, actually essential. And I additionally know for any individual who has not skilled it, it could actually appear a bit of elusive or complicated or they simply may not even know the place to begin. So to leap into the dialog considerably broadly and construct a basis we will construct on, are you able to discuss what somatics are, what nervous system therapeutic is, form of outline some phrases for our dialog?
Veronica: Sure, I’d like to. So if we begin with somatics and we break down simply that phrase, the basis phrase of somatics is soma, which implies physique. It additionally means moon, which I feel is fairly radical. And somatics is that this umbrella time period for any kind of modality that facilities therapeutic via the physique. So there are many totally different modalities that fall below that umbrella, together with issues like yoga, reiki. And my specialty, my schooling and background is in somatic experiencing, which is this system created by Dr. Peter Levine, who’s a reasonably well-known pioneer inside the somatic world and trauma therapeutic world. And somatic experiencing is a type of trauma decision via the nervous system. So it integrates somatics with polyvagal idea, nervous system schooling to, yeah, assist individuals rework their trauma into having extra well being and vitality. And it’s a extremely efficient type of trauma decision recognized worldwide. So I combine that with my background of 15 years in somatics, together with holistic pelvic care, my work as a doula, and a yoga instructor.
Katie: I like that. And I’m additionally a doula. I don’t do it fairly often as a result of six children, however considered one of my shut mates is due in Could, and I’m tremendous excited to get to carry house for her. And to construct on every little thing you stated, I like this idea. And I, once more, simply echo what you stated and actually need to carry up how highly effective this may be. I feel it could actually typically be neglected due to its simplicity, however I feel its significance can’t be acknowledged sufficient. And what I noticed in my very own journey was identical to being burdened can create type of a unfavorable suggestions loop in our physique after which that adjustments our psychological state. It form of turns into unfavorable loop. The identical works in reverse. And so I had this story in my head that, oh, if solely I healed this and this, if solely I used to be this dimension, if solely I regarded like this, then I’d be glad. And what I noticed was after I began integrating and addressing the nervous system facet, A, my psychological state modified loads. And B, my physique caught up finally as soon as I had let go of that trauma. And studying the guide, The Physique Retains the Rating form of opened my eyes to that for the primary time, the concept that feelings really can retailer within the physique. So subsequently, we will use the physique to truly assist heal our interior state as effectively. However I do know that is your work of genius. So are you able to clarify that a bit of deeper for individuals who possibly haven’t heard about this or understood how that idea works?
Veronica: Yeah, I’d like to, Katie. You realize, most of us have been taught to reside from the neck up, which means we’re a really mind-centric, pragmatic, mental society, proper? We actually idealize the thoughts because the management middle of our total life. If I can simply assume this fashion, if I can simply change the best way I’m pondering, then every little thing will probably be resolved. Now, right here comes the nervous system, the autonomic nervous system, which might be translated as like computerized. And what we now know via analysis is that the autonomic nervous system is definitely driving the overwhelming majority of our ideas, our feelings, our reactions, our decisions. It’s all within the physique.
So via polyvagal analysis, polyvagal idea, which was found by Dr. Stephen Porges, we all know that there’s this type of management middle within the physique or an info superhighway referred to as the vagus nerve. The vagus nerve is your longest nerve within the physique. It’s the tenth cranial nerve. It runs between physique and mind. It’s this tremendous, this tremendous freeway that delivers messages and communicates between the mind and the physique. Now we all know that 20% of that communication is shifting from the thoughts right down to the physique, 20%. Which implies that 80% of your ideas, of your feelings, of your experiences are shifting from the physique up. The nervous system is sending messages as much as the thoughts, to the mind, that create our actuality.
So this fully flips and reverses our conditioning to consider that my thoughts is every little thing. I’m my thoughts, proper? Really, you’re your physique. You might be your physique. You might be your physiology primarily. So once we consider issues just like the unconscious, the unconscious is the physique. And if we need to really rewire patterns and whether or not they’re psycho-emotional, psychological, bodily, it actually begins with coming house to our physique and studying the best way to really feel once more, really feel our feelings, our sensations that almost all of us are disconnected from as a result of we’re attempting to assume our method via our therapeutic.
Katie: That is smart. And I imply, that already reveals why that is so essential. However and having skilled it myself, I may say firsthand, I understand how essential that is. However once more, I feel individuals typically overlook this half, such as you defined, as a result of we form of have this type of mind over physique mentality and we establish with our thoughts. And I do know for me, if we need to speak in regards to the nervous system facet, we’ve parasympathetic and sympathetic nervous system states. And I didn’t notice it after I was in that have, however I had been largely or fully in sympathetic nervous system dominance for a decade. And we type of name parasympathetic that state of relaxation and digest and therapeutic. So I look again and go, oh, no surprise it was so exhausting to get higher when my physique was decoding that I used to be in like a very anxious type of life-threatening state of affairs, which I wasn’t. However our trendy brains haven’t caught as much as the issues that like our telephone shouldn’t be a tiger chasing us and a stress at work shouldn’t be a life-threatening state of affairs. However are you able to speak a bit of extra deeply about why that is so essential? As a result of I feel for ladies, particularly this level that you simply’re explaining is totally pivotal.
Veronica: Yeah. I like that you simply had been in a position to discover and mirror on, oh, wow, I’ve been on this state that advanced to assist us survive, proper? Like our nervous system advanced to maintain us alive. That’s its job. It’s a safety system. And it’s extremely adaptive. For this reason we’re in a position to transfer via persistent stress or actually scary occasions and nonetheless be capable to operate.
However once we ignore our physique’s function in that, the stress and the trauma keep within us. And what occurred up to now is being projected onto the current. So we’ve this course of inside our nervous system known as neuroception. And neuroception is the method via which your physique determines whether or not you’re protected or unsafe. It determines this through the senses, scanning the physique internally, after which our exterior atmosphere as effectively for indicators of security or hazard. It does this each six milliseconds, gathering info from our interior world and our outer world, going, are we protected or unsafe? Or possibly we would not be protected, proper?
Now, the factor right here is, if we’ve had experiences that had been anxious or traumatic in our previous that didn’t get an opportunity to be felt, our nervous system will maintain a reminiscence financial institution of what was taking place round us and within us throughout these scary and traumatic occasions. After which if it senses a type of stimuli within the current, it goes, oh, it’s taking place once more, or it’d occur once more. Let’s simply be prepared. Proper? So if we go into persistent stress once more, the physique may go, oh, it’s taking place once more. And we’ve received to enter struggle or flight or freeze or fawn. And we will speak in regards to the 4 Fs. However for now, we’ll simply break down neuroception. So it’s actually clever and adaptive. And it goes, oh, that facial features is loads just like the facial features you noticed once you had been having a scary expertise, proper? And it’ll very adaptively ship us into the survival states, not understanding that really we’re simply hanging out with our mates. We’re simply out to lunch. Like we’re simply having a superb time, however our physique doesn’t know that. So it tries to guard us. And that’s the place we really feel like we’re having possibly a disproportionate response to what’s at present in our lived expertise. So we might really feel instantly like we’ve loads of anxiousness or urgency in every little thing we do. We might really feel like, oh, I really feel actually burdened and my thoughts is racing, however I don’t need to converse, proper? There’s that freeze response. And we have to present our physique that we’re protected so as to heal this. We can’t resolve, oh, what? I don’t need to be concerned, proper? Like we will’t simply go, what, physique, I’m not feeling that response you’re having. Though loads of us strive to do this, proper? As an alternative, our physique must be proven that we’re protected. And this occurs via sensations of security, sensations of calm, of ease, of delight.
Katie: I like that. And to echo that one factor you stated, I feel it’s essential, or no less than it was for me within the therapeutic half to comprehend that is an adaptive response. My physique is at all times on my facet. It’s doing what it feels is the most effective for me. And so if the inputs I’m doing aren’t getting the outputs I need, I want to determine the best way to hearken to my physique and provides it what it must create the outputs, on this case, the nervous system expertise that I need. And I’d love so that you can briefly elaborate a bit of bit on the 4 Fs after which discuss, we’ll transfer into speaking about how can we sign that security. However I feel the 4 Fs are essential as a result of individuals can have drastically totally different reactions to the identical type of nervous system expertise. After which they could assume they’re not having the identical expertise as another person as a result of they’re having a unique response when actually it’s nonetheless rooted within the nervous system.
Veronica: Sure, precisely. So all of us have a capability to be in a regulated state. And this is named your ventral vagal complicated, ventral vagal state, the place we really feel protected and social, which means it’s protected to be on the earth. We really feel like we will join with others. We’re in our physique. That’s the main feeling is embodiment with our feelings and sensations with out feeling overwhelmed. There’s a way of circulate in our life, calm, ease, however alertness as effectively. And that is the place all techniques of the physique thrive, by the best way. When our nervous system is regulated, our immunity, our cardiovascular well being, our hormonal well being, our digestive system, they’re all going to thrive once we are on this state of nervous system regulation or the ventral vagal state.
Now, when our physique neuro-sets that we would not be protected or that we’re unsafe, once more, this may be due to our previous and issues that haven’t been resolved via the nervous system, it determines the most effective survival state to ship us into based mostly on our previous and what labored up to now, proper? In addition to the genetic predisposition we inherited from our lineage, from our ancestors, proper? So a few of us could also be extra sympathetic dominant. That means our physique determines that struggle or flee is the easiest way to outlive no matter we’re shifting via.
Now, by the best way, sympathetic will get a very unhealthy rep. And I simply need to identify that via polyvagal idea, we now know that we’ve to have the ability to upregulate and go into sympathetic typically for excellent causes. So for instance, my physique was very defended towards the struggle response. I’m a girl. I used to be raised as a lady who was taught, , your anger is an excessive amount of. Your anger isn’t applicable. Simply push it down and put a smile in your face. So I’m conditioned to not go right into a struggle response, which implies that I had a very exhausting time setting wholesome boundaries. I used to be a significant individuals pleaser, and I may simply default to that sample, regardless that in my thoughts I used to be like, I do know I don’t need to be a individuals pleaser. Why do I maintain doing it? I’m attempting my greatest, however my physique actually couldn’t let me go there. Proper? It was this body-based sample.
So we all know that we’d like to have the ability to go right into a struggle response or a flight response typically. It may be very optimistic. It’s when there’s a risk that the flight and struggle response pushes us in the direction of extra signs of dysregulation. So if I drop into flight, this seems like fleeing. Our physique goes, oh, our greatest likelihood of survival is to run away. So this will seem like urgency, anxiousness, feeling form of scared, feeling like I received to go, I received to go. So even once we’re like doing the dishes proper, we’re like speeding via it for some cause, regardless that we’re not in a rush. The struggle response can also be anxiousness, proper? Quite a lot of that sympathetic vitality is shifting via the physique, getting ready us to mobilize however transfer in the direction of the risk versus operating away from it. So it could actually seem like feeling anxious, like we’re decoding individuals’s facial expressions and phrases as combative, even after they’re not being combative. There’s that anger, that irritability, rage, fury, proper? Pressure within the physique.
Now, if we’ve been in struggle or flight for a very long time due to persistent stress, which, by the best way, that’s the norm in our world, we’re form of praised, proper, for going, going, going and by no means downregulating. So it’s fairly frequent. The physique is actually good. And once more, I like what you stated, Katie, about just like the physique is on our facet, really. So it goes, we can’t maintain this. We can’t be in an upregulated state. The techniques of our physique are being overly taxed. We’re exerting ourselves to some extent of exhaustion, proper? So it drops us down into what’s referred to as the freeze response. Now, a few of us may skip struggle or flight and simply drop into freeze in moments of stress or perceived risk. So like my nervous system and loads of girls, by the best way, drop into freeze. As a result of we’re taught, once more, to not take up house, particularly with our feelings. We’re taught that, once more, we’ve to carry out completely for others. I want to indicate up and be within the temper that you really want me to be in. Proper? Or I have to match the temper that you simply’re in so as to really feel protected.
And so we may be denied this expertise of mobilization and as an alternative go into freeze, which is the physique is in a state of tonic immobility, it is stuffed with sympathetic vitality. So there’s nonetheless these racing ideas, anxiousness, fear, overwhelm, however my physique, all techniques of my physique are slowing down. So it’s exhausting to maneuver. It’s exhausting to really feel protected taking on house. My voice, it’s exhausting to make use of my voice. As a result of that is the physique’s clever method of, , let’s say such as you’re a mouse being chased by a cat. The mouse in all probability can’t struggle the cat. It may’t flee. So, okay, effectively, I’m going to be nonetheless and hope the cat doesn’t see me. Or if the cat sees me, I’m going to play useless. And hopefully it’ll become bored with me and never attempt to eat me. So that is our physique’s method of enjoying useless via immobilization. All techniques of the physique are going to decelerate, together with digestion. You realize, our hormonal well being can actually take a toll. And our immunity as effectively. There’s freeze, proper?
After which our physique also can drop into what’s referred to as the fawn response, which I feel doesn’t get talked about as a lot. And the fawn is named a ventral freeze. So it’s a social state. It’s a part of our social engagement system, however it’s additionally a freeze. There’s this immobility. It’s the canine that meets the alpha canine and goes, oh, will you be my pal? I’m cute. And it rolls on its again and performs good, proper? Like tries to be cute. So many people, I feel, particularly girls, have skilled this. Individuals-pleasing, appeasing, caretaking, at all times simply performing niceness for others so as to really feel protected. And once more, that is physique pushed. It’s a really adaptive response. Nevertheless it requires us to self-abandon. We’ve got to depart our personal expertise and our personal feelings behind so as to prioritize how all people else is feeling. However we will heal this. We will come out of this. And as any individual who was a persistent freezer and fawner, and I do know you’ve had your personal expertise, Katie, I’d love to listen to about, you’ll be able to construct that capability for regulation via the physique.
Katie: That was such an amazing clarification. And such as you, I had that anger push down, don’t take up house, individuals pleasing, very a lot the identical. And I needed to study slowly that to have boundaries and to not suppress that fireside, but in addition to let it out with kindness solely. And it’s life-changing, gradual course of typically, however completely life-changing. And I feel all this has constructed to the proper level the place persons are in all probability questioning, yeah, that makes a lot sense. How can I sign to my physique that it’s protected? How can I construct habits round nervous system well being in order that my physique doesn’t must exist in these 4 Fs anymore?
Veronica: Yeah. Properly, and I liked the way you identified, Katie, that it’s a gradual course of. And that is really a cornerstone to nervous system therapeutic, to trauma therapeutic, is we have to present our physique that it’s protected to go gradual. And we’ve to do our therapeutic in tiny digestible bits for our nervous system to alter. So as an alternative of going full drive, I’m simply going to really feel all that anger and I’m going to embody it, proper? That’s really in all probability going to backfire and drop us again down into freeze as a result of our nervous system doesn’t really feel protected with that.
So as an alternative, the very very first thing that I educate in my one-on-ones, in my courses and immersions, retreats, is connecting to a felt sense of delight. All of us have a unique relationship with pleasure. Even that phrase, particularly for ladies, can carry up some stuff. Proper? Some individuals may really feel like pleasure is frivolous or trivial, or that I’m speaking about non secular bypassing or poisonous positivity, and I’m actually not. This can be a sensation in your physique. It’s a physiological expertise. And with out it, our nervous system can’t register security.
So for instance, I do know that after I look exterior on the timber in entrance of my home, they’re a powerful somatic useful resource or what Deb Dana calls a glimmer for me. I can have a look at the timber and I really feel a softening from my brow down via my coronary heart house. And that’s an instance of a sensation of delight. This little second of delight has a big impact on my nervous system. Particularly after I’m working towards constantly. That is how we present our nervous system that really we’re protected. Really, the bear isn’t chasing me, proper? I can downregulate. It’s a micro-downregulation within the physique. And if I stick with it and breathe into it, it expands. In order that’s like step one is like, let’s simply construct capability for security within the nervous system via a felt sense of delight. And there’s a number of totally different practices that may assist us with that if our physique has develop into overly conversant in being in a dysregulated state.
Katie: Yeah, I feel, once more, that can’t be overstated how essential that’s and the way these little shifts over time after they compound could make a very massive distinction. So for me, I discovered that considered one of my indicators of security and pleasure was to get morning sunshine as quickly as doable after I awoke. And that as I made {that a} behavior, it grew to become like a bit of like bliss filter in my mind and I’d really feel a lot extra energetic, but in addition simply had this type of like psychological calm that will come over me. And bonus of that’s it additionally helps your sleep at evening. If you get exterior gentle, it doesn’t must be brilliant. It may be a cloudy day, however getting that exterior gentle early makes such an enormous distinction. And I do know I attempted all types of modalities. I attempted tapping. I attempted laying with my legs up on a wall at evening to sign a relaxed state. I attempted getting, simply getting extra hugs and make contact with with individuals I like makes an enormous distinction and it’s free. I do know you go deep within the on-line world on loads of these modalities and the best way to use them, however every other locations you’ll give individuals as beginning factors, after which I’ll additionally make sure that to hyperlink to your work on-line so individuals can discover it and study extra in depth from you.
Veronica: Yeah, thanks, Katie. I feel taking note of these micro-moments that you simply had been speaking about of pure assets that carry you a way of security and calm and ease so it doesn’t must be this like oh I’ve to do my yoga observe so as to really feel higher though I like yoga or I’ve to do that grand gesture of therapeutic so as to really feel higher, proper? As an alternative, what are the issues which can be already current in your life that you could have a look at, hearken to, contact, style, scent, that are a useful resource that reveals your nervous system you’re protected? In order that, yeah, you’re not shifting in the direction of your therapeutic journey with this sense of like, I’ve received to make it occur. I’ve received to do it. I’ve received to, , have essentially the most intense cathartic expertise to heal. It’s really in these seemingly mundane however very magical moments that our physique can register security, particularly once we decelerate to actually have interaction with them via our senses.
Katie: I like that. And the place can individuals discover you on-line? For individuals listening, we’re going to do a second episode that actually goes deep on the nervous system and type of utilizing it to create the life that you really want. However for now, for this dialog, the place can individuals continue learning from you?
Veronica: So in the event you’re serious about actually understanding your triggers, so we talked about neuroception, proper, and the way your physique is perceiving risk, even when risk is absent, that is typically what’s known as a set off. And set off is that this actually stylish phrase, this round, therapeutic and I discover that folks have this false impression about triggers, loads of misconceptions. So I created a free useful resource. In the event you go to the truthabouttriggers.com, you’ll be able to hearken to my free pop-up podcast that teaches you all about triggers, the best way to heal them the place they really exist, which is in your nervous system. And it’s particularly designed to assist girls. So yeah, truthabouttriggers.com is the place you could find that. And I’m additionally wakingwomb on Instagram and on my web site.
Katie: Superior. All of these hyperlinks, together with the notes I’ve been taking whereas we’ve been speaking, will all be at wellnessmama.com in the event you guys are listening on the go when you’re going for a stroll within the sunshine, which might be nice in your nervous system. However undoubtedly comply with Veronica and continue learning. I do know I’ve discovered loads from you already. And I feel this matter, like I stated to start with, is so essential. So thanks a lot in your time and for sharing at this time.
Veronica: Thanks, Katie.
Katie: And thanks for listening. And I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the subsequent episode of The Wellness Mama Podcast.
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