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Howdy, and welcome to the Wellness Mama podcast. I’m Katie from wellnessmama.com. And immediately, I’m right here with Dr. Sam Shay, who in his day job, solves well being puzzles for busy entrepreneurs, health-conscious mothers, and adults with Asperger’s in order that they will exit survival mode and reenter their group. And he has a really private journey alongside these traces with overcoming his personal struggles, together with fatigue, insomnia, addictions, anxiousness, intestine issues, power spinal ache, and way more. And he now works within the useful drugs world and in addition within the genetic world. However immediately, we speak about one thing that he doesn’t speak about as a lot, which is his stand-up comedy. He makes use of clear, observational comedy to teach and entertain, particularly across the space of Asperger’s. However we speak about comedy immediately from the angle of what it may well study and what it may well educate and each of our expertise with stand-up comedy is, that is one thing that I’ve experimented with in addition to a technique to get out of my consolation zone. So slightly little bit of a deviation from the traditional, strictly health-focused dialog, however I feel an vital one, and the way he says comedy helps us get by tragedy, how artwork is the receipt for ache, and stand-up comedy is the way in which to itemize that receipt in public, and the way he’s utilizing this to assist himself and to assist others. So let’s be part of stand-up comedian and useful drugs specialist, Dr. Sam Shay. Dr. Shay, welcome. Thanks a lot for being right here.
Sam: It’s nice to see you, Katie.
Katie: All the time nice to see you and speak to you as effectively. And I’m actually excited for this dialog as a result of we’re going to get to deviate slightly bit. We’re going to do two episodes collectively, however our first one, I’m going to deviate from simply the realm of bodily well being. And we’re going to speak about one thing that may be a private passion and fervour of mine and even way more so for you since you are a lot better at it than I’m, although I’m nonetheless within the technique of studying. And that’s stand-up comedy. And my listeners might have heard me point out this as a result of yearly I problem myself to do one thing that’s totally out of my consolation zone. And one of many years it was studying stand-up comedy and performing in entrance of individuals, which for anybody who hasn’t performed it, for me no less than, was proper up there with scary issues to do, particularly the primary time you ever do it. I do know you could have fairly the story with this as effectively. So for background and context, are you able to share how you bought into stand-up comedy and possibly distinction that slightly bit together with your background and what you had been doing, kind of like, quote-unquote, what your day job is?
Sam: Okay, so my day, I’ll do it by the reverse. So my day job is that I’m an internet useful drugs practitioner, and I assist folks, mothers and entrepreneurs and adults on the spectrum in order that they will exit survival mode and reenter the group. That’s the massive general image, utilizing useful drugs. And for these, your viewers may be very acquainted with useful drugs. Simply my definition, actual transient, is useful drugs is utilizing the perfect of Western drugs diagnostics with the perfect of pure drugs, way of life, and weight loss plan interventions. So it’s form of the estuary. It’s the assembly of salt and freshwater, combining the perfect of each worlds. And the way I obtained into that can be similar to how I obtained into comedy. I used to be very sick and unwell as a toddler, and that launched my complete journey. Which we are able to speak extra intimately at one other time. However the comedy may be very related, that I obtained into comedy the identical approach that the majority comics get into comedy is thru tragedy. And we use comedy as a technique to make sense of the world and to navigate fraught conditions as a result of, as a result of comedy is, I imply, one of many, one of many ways in which I open up with in my units is like, what’s a stand-up comedian? It’s an individual with an issue who now not pays for remedy. And my, one other approach that that’s been mentioned is that artwork is the receipt for ache. So folks’s artwork is their expression, is how they’re in a position to metabolize ache.
My addendum to that description, artwork is the receipt for ache, is stand-up comedy is the way in which to itemize that receipt in public. So, so after I began out rising up is I had an especially fraught residence atmosphere and college atmosphere. My dad and mom had a nuclear divorce after I was six years outdated, and each me and all my sisters had been caught within the blast radius. And my dad and mom, regardless of each being psychiatrists, regardless of possibly due to, I don’t know, that is within the 80s, they didn’t deal with the divorce effectively in any respect and did all of the improper stuff you’re alleged to do as a divorced dad or mum, which was you weaponize a toddler towards the opposite dad or mum. You employ the kid because the go-between to reply monetary disagreements between you two. I bear in mind being like eight, 9 years outdated and being shuttled between one and the opposite about monetary points over me as a substitute of those two grown shrinks with the ability to simply choose up the cellphone and speak to one another, which is each tragic and hilarious, which can be one other technique to describe stand-up comedy. And there was loads of gaslighting and emotional abuse at residence.
After which at college, there was loads of bodily violence and gaslighting. Willful blindness on the a part of the college, the principal, my quote-unquote buddies who stood idly by as I used to be being attacked in plain view. And the factor, and comedy was, I obtained into comedy as a result of the factor that I may do at residence, on my own that had some modicum of enjoyable to it and simply be left alone was watch TV. And so, I watched sitcoms. No, I watched sitcoms to know, what, attempt to make sense of the world. Now there’s a threat to that. So, like studying, understanding household dynamics by Married with Kids is like studying rhetoric from Beavis and Butthead. Prefer it’s not, there’s dangers in watching sitcoms to attempt to perceive your world. However some sitcoms had been extraordinarily useful. Household Issues, and earlier than anybody knew any higher about his, about his egregious transgressions, you already know, The Cosby Present, was extraordinarily useful for me to attempt to perceive what it’s wish to have a useful household that had their disagreements and their issues, however finally all got here again collectively by the top of the episode.
And, and, so comedy was the way in which I may attempt to make sense of the world. Additionally, comedy was, by comedy, I discovered the distinction between a menace and a joke. And I’ll say that once more, the distinction between a menace and a joke. And what I imply, I’m being very technical right here. And when three bigger boys would strategy me at school and one among them would say one thing humorous, however solely the three of them had been laughing, that wasn’t a joke, that was a menace. In the event that they mentioned one thing and I laughed and all of us laughed, then it was a joke. So I additionally discovered that there’s a subtext to how folks communicate. And the opposite actuality that I share with the viewers is that I’m additionally on the spectrum. And actually, my stand-up comedy is about speaking about what it’s wish to be on the spectrum. Again then, nobody ever informed me what Asperger’s was. It wasn’t actually out within the zeitgeist but. And I didn’t perceive social cues. I didn’t perceive facial expressions. I didn’t perceive easy methods to navigate a social atmosphere, each at residence and at college. And humor was, humor was a approach that I may begin to perceive stimulus response and social engagements.
And the opposite factor was that if I discovered to make folks chortle at school, they harm me much less. So if that turned helpful by way of being humorous, versus an outlet for no matter they’re, for regardless of the youngsters typically simply take pleasure in petty cruelties. And, If I used to be, if I may make somebody chortle, then they didn’t need, then this was one thing novel versus utilizing me as an outlet for his or her petty cruelties.
And lastly, humor. Humor was a technique to level out painful truths in a approach that was palatable. And I feel that’s one cause why humor rocketed as much as notably The Every day Present. I imply, The Every day Present, I feel, singularly was a very powerful cultural phenomenon that from, beginning in like 2000, 2001, the place humor or Jon Stewart principally introduced humor, elevated it as much as a stage of a stage, principally as a fact supply system. And I feel in some unspecified time in the future, it was like a 3rd. I don’t, I’m going to fudge these statistics. I don’t fairly bear in mind. They’re simply appeared up-able, you already know, one thing like one-third of all adults underneath a sure age, obtained all their whole information from Jon Stewart, you already know, on the peak of his fame. So, that’s form of the origin story. Once more, it’s equal to the wounded healer archetype in useful drugs. You’ve interviewed so many individuals in pure drugs. I’ll assure 80-plus p.c of them had a wounded healer narrative of some kind or one other. It’s the identical for comedy. It’s precisely the identical.
And we use comedy as a technique to get shared actuality on extraordinarily troublesome issues that occurred in our lives and do it in a approach that we now have group, laughter, we have now suggestions as a result of on the root of virtually each trauma is, is separation that, that the basis of trauma is the space from belonging. And laughter is the closest distance between two folks. So, laughter is drugs in a really possible way as a result of, you already know, rising up, I felt very remoted. Now laughter is a technique to deliver folks nearer.
Katie: I really like that. And also you’re positively proper that almost all of individuals on this podcast do come from a wounded healer perspective. And many people obtained into the well being world, researching our personal points and looking for our personal solutions after which had a want to share with others. I additionally suppose you’re completely proper that laughter is drugs. And also you even hear these tales of people that recovered totally from actually superior diseases by simply actually watching comedy and laughing on daily basis. And it actually is function system drugs, its connection. And I feel you’re proper, it permits us to the touch on our ache in a approach that we would our unconscious and our nervous system may in any other case lock down. Laughter is form of a cheat code to get into that. And I do know from conversations with you, that you simply even have a want, and I consider we’re even engaged on a approach to make use of stand-up comedy to assist people who find themselves on the spectrum as effectively. And I really like, I really like our dialog about this. So in case you’re prepared, I might love so that you can elaborate on that. As a result of I feel that is truly like a much-needed drugs in immediately’s world.
Sam: Certain. The, I want somebody took 60 minutes with me about 30 years in the past to elucidate what being on the spectrum meant. You already know, I’m on my, you already know, sliver of it, of Asperger’s, and the, if somebody had simply taken like an hour, even half-hour to simply clarify to me, hey, child, look, that is that is your mind. It’s not, your mind was not, doesn’t slot in simply into the world as it’s. The world was not constructed for you. So right here your mind is totally different. So, you’ve obtained, these couple of superpowers, this buffet of cryptochromes, and right here’s what it’s essential to study and perceive with a purpose to adapt to the norme world. Now, comedy is available in as a result of I solely discovered I had Asperger’s like 5 years in the past. And if somebody had shared with me what this was all about, it could have saved me a lot drama and trauma and bother.
And so what I’m doing is I’m utilizing comedy because the automobile to create and ship this 30-minute, 60-minute story narrative, this sort of security package deal to folks on the spectrum and those who love them to assist perceive what our expertise is like, what we are able to do and the way we are able to higher navigate the world. So, I’m utilizing comedy to make the message palatable, after which making social media, utilizing social media, to make it scalable. After which, finally, I’ll have a training program constructed on the backend of it to assist folks on the spectrum and those who love them to make it sensible. So, I imply, there’s, you speak about enterprise right here on this podcast. It’s like, I’m unsure there’s actually another useful drugs doc on the market that’s making a one-hour comedy particular as their lead magnet for the highest of their funnel. You already know, I’m unsure that’s a factor. So my, and I’m doing it, and I’m creating, I’m creating the comedy. I’m about 45 minutes performed with the hour of it. So I’m simply ending, I imply, this subsequent quarter developing after I research, I research with my trainer, Zoe Rogers right here. And I do a category along with her writing class twice a yr. And so it’s like constructing it over these previous 4 or 5 years, simply constructing, constructing, constructing.
It’s very a lot in what we had been simply describing earlier than, which is the wounded healer, the wounded comedian. It’s utilizing the ache to then create one thing stunning that may then be shared at scale to stop, mitigate, or reverse the harm that another person has skilled in an analogous observe that you simply did. And that’s when a therapeutic actually occurs is when, my, my thought is like, when is a healer, when is somebody actually healed is when one is really resourced sufficient that now you may assist one other attain that place as effectively. Not simply I’ve resolved my factor, however I’ve helped one other individual, you already know, mitigate, reverse, or stop the factor from them occurring to them within the first place.
Katie: Ooh, I like that definition loads. And it positively appears to use right here. I additionally know from being on an analogous journey with comedy myself, that for folks listening, pondering like, oh, simply an hour, an hour is an eternity when you’re doing stand-up comedy, and you are able to do a lot work and suppose you could have a lot nice materials and it’s like 5 minutes. So, to commend you on that, as a result of I do know, and I’m not as far alongside as you’re, however I do know what that journey seems like. I might guess some folks, not everybody listening in all probability needs to or is prepared to embark on studying stand-up comedy. However for the individuals who do need to study, I do know I’ve had my very own very winding journey of this. And I’m guessing you could have as effectively. How does one even study? As a result of I can say from firsthand expertise it’s not as simple as simply getting up on stage and making an attempt to be humorous.
Sam: No, it’s not the Marvelous Mrs. Maisie the place you could have your day at work, after which all of a sudden, you’re up there consuming alcohol and simply doing a five-minute set tremendous simple. That’s not how this works. Simply to present you a way, comedy is probably going probably the most, it’s probably the most egoic, harmful artwork types in existence. And the rationale why is as a result of, as a comic book, you’re by no means the one that determines in case your work is completed or good. As a painter, you may end it. As a songwriter, you may end it. As a poet, you may end it. However with comedy, there’s that real-time suggestions. Do folks chortle? Sure or no. And so, it’s probably the most meritocratic methods disciplines on the market like you could have comics come from actually all walks of life we’re all like working our units and all, all we need to all we care about, and assist is do you make the folks chortle, no matter you’re doing, no matter’s happening in your life.
And easy methods to do comedy, there’s a few methods. The primary one is to simply open your ears to comedy, and which means like getting the reps in of listening. I did that as a toddler all by from a toddler all the way in which up by maturity listening to comedy. And there’s a cadence, a lilt, a beat to it. The truth is, there’s an unimaginable interview of Jon Stewart interviewing George Carlin within the 90s. This was earlier than Jon Stewart was even a factor, like he blasted off on The Every day Present. And George Carlin, I’ve watched that video dozens of occasions as a result of there’s a lot gold in that interview the place George Carlin describes that the comedy is much less like prose and extra like music. You possibly can hear the musicality of it. And for those that are actually desirous to study, I recommend, one, discover your three favourite stand-up comics. And I say three particularly since you don’t need to mannequin after one individual. You need to create your personal. And having three inspirations are very useful. And simply watch them with a studious eye versus only a informal ear.
And there’s different strategies as effectively. I’ve I put collectively on your viewers a primer. It’s a nine-page doc of going by how I take into consideration and write about comedy. And other people can simply, I’ll provide the hyperlink and folks can simply get that nine-page write up on easy methods to how no less than take into consideration and write comedy and contains prompts and every little thing else. The opposite is that there’s a bunch of books now on easy methods to write stand-up comedy which are accessible. Then one of the best ways, in my view, is to discover a comedy coach the place, mine’s Zoe, Zoe Rogers, and he or she is an precise stand-up comedy teacher. And I’ve studied along with her for 4 approaching 5 years now. And one of the best ways to study comedy is to have a author’s room the place you’re a part of a small group of individuals and also you meet about as soon as per week and also you share your materials and also you get suggestions on easy methods to enhance. And you’ve got a deadline, which means there’s a present that’s imminent in a pair months that you must carry out your three minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, no matter it’s in entrance of a stay viewers. So, there’s that stress to truly create a ultimate product. And that, to me, has been the only best technique to actually learn to and carry out comedy is having that group accountability with the efficiency accountability.
Katie: Sure. And to echo what you mentioned, do a five- or 10-minute set when you’re studying. And on your first set, don’t attempt to bounce into one thing lengthy as a result of it seems like an eternity when you’re up there and a stress cooker abruptly. And it’s exhilarating and wonderful and will certainly get you out of your consolation zone. With that mentioned, when will we get to listen to the Dr. Sam Shay Particular?
Sam: Okay. In order of this recording, I’m making use of for the Denver Fringe Pageant, and I’ll be making use of for an hour slot, I don’t know. Some functions aren’t even open but. However I’ve on my YouTube channel, which I’ll additionally provide the hyperlink for, I’ve a playlist for stand-up comedy. And also you get to see a complete bunch of movies. There’s one specifically, the title is known as Asperger’s, Physics, and Bears, Oh my. And it’s an 18-and-a-half-minute set I did final yr the place the primary 10 minutes is on what it’s wish to have Asperger’s and in addition what it’s wish to stay with somebody who’s even additional down. My father is no less than an ordinary deviation or two extra on the spectrum than I’m. So I used to be on this very unusual place the place I used to be, I wasn’t connecting with the normies. After which I additionally wasn’t connecting with my father as a result of he was even additional down than I’m. So I’m on this center floor the place I’m not connecting to anyone. And I speak about that as effectively as a result of I can empathize with people who find themselves making an attempt to know what persons are like on the spectrum. I truly additionally get what that’s like, unusually sufficient. So, so we’ll see as soon as the plan is that if I get onto the stage for that, I’ll have, you already know, speak about a deadline, then, that’s a serious deadline to get that every one put collectively. After which from there, actually, like recording comedy, so truly getting a full hour performed, however then there’s like doing all of the micro sharpening and the micro ending and every little thing else. That’s why you see comics, they don’t simply write an hour and launch it. They really go and do it in a number of crowds again and again, and it takes loads of time. After which they lastly choose some extent the place they actually lock down the present and all of the cadence, the liltz, the expressions, the physicalities, every little thing else. Then, they really hit the file button for formal distribution. And I do not know how lengthy that’s going to take.
However what I’m doing is releasing components of it on my channel. So I simply completed a set two weeks in the past, truly, the place it was one other seven minutes on Asperger’s, a very totally different set of subjects, together with the historical past of it. And since one of many issues I need to do, Katie, is I need to reclaim the time period Asperger’s as a phrase of satisfaction. And simply briefly, for those that don’t know, the time period Asperger’s has fallen out of favor to make use of to explain somebody like me on the spectrum. It’s all been subsumed into Autism Spectrum Dysfunction. I imply, formally it was subsumed, I feel it was within the DSM-5 in 2013 earlier than it was deputized in 1991 within the DSM-IV. However Asperger’s was a very legit time period. However what the, the fact is that there’s loads that’s come up concerning the historical past of the title. Dr. Hans Asperger had credible ties to the Nazi celebration. And that’s why his title has been eliminated as a result of it has been pulled out of favor as a result of it’s unclear, and there’s two actually huge debates over whether or not Physician Asperger was making an attempt to guard his quote-unquote little professors from being sterilized or exterminated. Or if he was complicit within the Nazis co-opting Dr. Asperger, his personal work, to mark these youngsters for sterilization or elimination. And I might have been a type of children marked for sterilization or elimination. And so then, why would I say, why would I’ve satisfaction in calling myself an Aspi? It’s as a result of Asperger’s finally introduced down the Nazis, and I can show it with three names: Oppenheimer, Einstein, and Turing. All three had Asperger’s. So, to me, it’s form of like I’m Frankenstein’s monster right here that we, due to Asperger’s, we introduced down the very entity that was making an attempt to destroy us. In order that’s why I’m reclaiming it as a mark of satisfaction. And other people shouldn’t be ashamed of calling themselves Aspi as a result of no matter whether or not Dr. Asperger was complicit or not in how his data, his analysis was used, we received. And that we must always have loads of satisfaction in.
Katie: I feel that’s fairly the unimaginable story that lots of people don’t know. And I do know you’ve talked about a few of your work on-line and a information for people who find themselves listening. I’ll ensure these hyperlinks are included within the present notes. And I may even say, please keep tuned for our subsequent episode that we get to do collectively, the place we get to study out of your different space of genius, which is within the well being facet. And we’re going to get to go deep on a few of these subjects.
However I additionally suppose what I really like about your story is, initially, that you simply’ve reworked your ache into one thing that not simply helps you however helps others as effectively. And likewise that you simply so boldly tackled one thing that was initially out of your consolation zone. I feel whether or not it’s stand-up comedy or whether or not it’s one thing totally totally different, that’s one thing we are able to all study from. And that’s why I’d wish to set that aim yearly I do one thing that completely terrifies me as a result of I feel that’s one of many methods wherein we develop. And once we can develop our consolation zone, we would discover new issues that develop into passions or joys or hobbies or loves. So thanks for sharing a lot of your story immediately. And, like I mentioned, all of these hyperlinks you talked about can be within the present notes. However another passing ideas that you simply need to depart the viewers with associated to comedy earlier than we get to dive into the well being world?
Sam: Yeah. If you happen to get into stand-up comedy, it’s not simply enjoyable. It’s not simply therapeutic. It’s not only a technique to join with folks, it should additionally make you a greater author, a greater speaker, and a greater thinker. Comedy forces, you write out 95, 99% of something you ever write for comedy is finally lower away, and also you’re simply in what’s left is distilled down in a very powerful impactful phrases, phrases, tales. And stand-up comedy has made me such a greater thinker.
The opposite factor I might say is that it’s given a a lot larger therapeutic window than I may have ever imagined due to all of the horrible issues that I’ve ever skilled occurred can now be reframed as some trauma to now recover from. It’s now materials to transmute and share in a technique to helps others. And I really feel like comedy is one among, it’s among the best whetstones to sharpen one’s thoughts, each of issues going ahead and of what’s occurred prior to now.
Katie: I really like that. I feel that’s an ideal place to wrap up for immediately. However like I mentioned, all these sources can be linked within the present notes at wellnessmama.com in case you’re listening on the go. And Dr. Sam, it’s so enjoyable to get to have a dialog with you generally, but in addition about one thing that’s not a standard subject for this podcast that hopefully opens some eyes to new areas of exploration. Thanks a lot on your time and for sharing so vulnerably and for being right here immediately.
Sam: Thanks, Katie.
Katie: And because of all of you for listening. And I hope that you’ll be part of me once more on the following episode of the Wellness in Legislation podcast sequence.
If you happen to’re having fun with these interviews, would you please take two minutes to depart a score or evaluate on iTunes for me? Doing this helps extra folks to seek out the podcast, which suggests much more mothers and households may gain advantage from the data. I actually recognize your time, and thanks as all the time for listening.
